Vatican II and Latin: What We Forgot About the Mass (Fr Dan: Ep 3)

Many Catholics assume Vatican II got rid of Latin in the Catholic Mass — but that’s not what the Council taught.

In this episode, Fr. Dan Yasinski and Ken Yasinski explore the Catholic Church’s true teaching on Latin, the Mass, and the Sacred Liturgy.

Transcript

Most Catholics don't realize this, but the church never said to get rid of Latin from the mass. Yet somehow it vanished from almost every parish. So the important question is, how did that happen?

Welcome back. This is episode three in our series on the sacred liturgy. Today we are asking three big questions. What happened to Latin in the mass? Did Vatican 2 really mean to get rid of it? And what did we lose when Latin disappeared? First, you'll see a homaly delivered by Father Dan Yazinski. And then we'll sit down here and have a further discussion. So, make sure you stay tuned to the end. My grandfather

loved Latin. He prayed in Latin. For being born in 1918, it was the language of the mass he attended as a child. He learned to read and write in Latin at a Jesuit boarding school in Edmonton. He sang in Latin almost every Sunday. in his small country church in but St. here Saskatchewan. He was one of the main caners in the choir. He would have sang the tantrago at benediction, the ven creator spiritus at Pentecost and vitro ruse at Christmas. Yes, my my grandfather prayed and sang in Latin. That is until he couldn't anymore, until his local parish didn't let him anymore. For in the late 60s and early 70s, he was told that the church was getting rid of Latin. That after 15,600 years of use, it was going bye-bye. So long for now. And you know, until the day he died, I don't think he ever understood why. My grandfather's experience was a common one. In the late 60s and early 70s when the reforms of the council were being rolled out, the second Vatican council, many were told that the church was suppressing Latin in favor of the vernacular and practically this happened. Since 1970, mass has been celebrated almost exclusively in the vernacular, in the language of the people with almost no hint of Latin. And this is perplexing con considering that Holy Mother Church never desired to get rid of it. You won't find that in a church document. You won't see that written in the documents of the second Vatican council. In fact, you'll find the opposite. That Latin alongside the vernacular is to be preserved and treasured in this third homaly in our series on the sacred liturgy. I I want to briefly make the case for a little more Latin at the mass today. I I just want to focus on what the church teaches in this regard because there's some confusion. And in the following weeks, if I have time, I'll I'll investigate the reasons why we use it to praise God and to worship our Lord Jesus. But today, simply what the church teaches. And to start I I want to begin around the time of the second Vatican council. I'll I'll quote from some papal documents but don't worry I won't quote them in Latin. I'll use the vernacular as the homaly supposed to be in the language of the people. Way back in 1922 Pope Pas the 11th said this about Latin. The church of its very nature requires a language that is universal, immutable and nonvanacular. Requires it's a strong word. In 47, Pope Pas I 12th in his encyclical mediati said this, "The use of the Latin language is a beautiful sign of unity and an effective antidote against any corruption of truth." In 47, they still spoke highly of Latin. In 1962, right on the eve of the second Vatican Council, St. John the 23rd wrote a whole document on the preservation of Latin in the church. And keep in mind, he's the pope that invoked the second Vatican council that supposedly got rid of it, but he wrote a whole document on preserving it. and I quote, "She the church values especially the languages of Greek and Latin in which wisdom itself is cloaked in vestures of gold." Poetic description there. He said, "Latin has been consecrated consecrated through constant use by the apostolic sea and must be esteemed a treasure of incomparable worth." He goes further, "The employment of Latin has recently been contested in many quarters and many are asking the mind of the apostolic sea on this matter. We have therefore decided to issue these timely directives so as to ensure that the ancient and uninterrupted use of Latin is maintained and restored where necessary. That's in 1962, just months before the second Vatican council began. But isn't it something that the very thing John the 23rd was warning us about, the suppression of Latin, occurred just 7 years later in 69. And then we get to the second Vatican council itself. Thanks for staying with me here. This is where our mass came from today. And so we might think that the church said no to Latin here. But on the contrary, the the council continues in the same vein of thought. In a document sacro sanctum conchilium the fathers wrote the use of Latin is to be preserved in the Latin rights. Preserved, not done away with. Moreover, while allowing the vernacular for the readings, the prayers of the faithful in the homaly, they went on to say this. Steps should be taken that the faithful may be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the ordinary of the mass which pertain to them. The council father said that that you the faithful should know the ordinary parts of the mass in Latin. Do you know what the ordinary parts of the mass are? I had a little girl yesterday that screamed out, "No."

And I said, "Well, I'll tell you. The ordinary parts of the mass are those parts that are repeated every Sunday that are the same. The sign of the cross, the Lord have mercy, the Gloria, the creed, the mass parts, the Our Father, the dismissal, the blessing. The council said we should take care that the faithful know how to say and sing these parts in Latin. How have we done in that regard? I might ask. And you know the the church teaches the same today. These teachings haven't been repudiated or suppressed. In fact, in my Roman missile there, the red book alongside the English at times you'll find the Latin. And so I got to tell you, part of this really breaks my heart to get rid of something which the council upheld, something which had been passed on to us for 1500 years through unbroken tradition. For 1500 years, the church unanimous unanimously embraced Latin. It was accepted by the saints. We prayed and sang in it. We wrote our doctrine in it. And here's a lurggical or spiritual principle for you. If something's embraced by the church over a long period of time and accepted by the saints, you can be sure it's guided by the Holy Spirit. As was the use of Latin. Instead of discarding it thinking we know better than 1500 years of tradition, we should be receiving it with trembling hands. the vernacular alongside Latin, which was the council's wish. It's why I'm thankful to Father Jeff for bringing back the singing of the Latin mass parts. And with your cooperation, I' i'd like to introduce a little more. I'd like us to learn the Gloria and the Our Father in Latin. And I'll walk us through that when the time comes. But today in the spirit of the second Vatican council at the end of mass, I'll bless you all in Latin for Latin has been consecrated. It's a treasure of incomparable worth. God bless you. God love you. Amen.

Okay, so let's go beyond the homaly now. Uh, I remember listening to this homaly sitting in the pew and I just loved it. And I'm not just saying that because you're my brother. Well, you can't see that. But I I feel as we've been going through these homalies as a parish, I've been learning so much as I'm really hoping that, you know, people are going to tune in and watch this. I I have we have no idea, but we're shooting this ahead of time. Uh but the story was particularly interesting to me was that of our grandfather uh and how you talked about him and I guess why do you think Latin mattered so much to him and also people of his generation or do you think it did? So I can speak as to why I think it mattered to him. I think it it would have mattered to people of his generation as well. Right. I think lots of people felt a shock. Yeah. After kind of Latin left the church in in the 70s. But I can't speak for them. I can maybe guess as to why they felt that way. But I think grandpa like I remember having conversations with him at the dinner table, right? Mom would have him over Mhm. every night as he was a widowerower for many years. And we get to I'd get to talking with him about uh his experience of church growing up. And he had such a deep love particularly for the for the beautiful chants and the beautiful Latin hymns cuz he was part of the choir for so long. And uh he was drawn to their beauty. They're beautiful. Yeah. Is what they are, right? And and so I know he was drawn to that beauty. But I think I think he was also drawn to the fact these are these were ancient hymns and ancient chants and they had they connected him with his father and his grandfather and his great-grandfather and the saints of old and so I know I think he felt a depth to those hymns and those songs and because he still sang in the choir after the change, right? He went from Latin Yeah. to singing in English. Yes. And if I could say this, this was his experience. He he didn't speak as fondly about, you know, the new himnity as he did as of the old. Yeah. That could be part because we're familiar, right, with what we grew up with. But there's it goes deeper than that. It's a sacred familiarity. Also a connection with what came before. Yeah. And he struggled with that. like this is the church had used these hymns, these songs for so long and he could never really understand why all of a sudden they were just gone practically speaking. Yeah. Right. They weren't gone from the books like the church still encouraged them to be used but they never never were. But in practice they were gone. Yeah. In practice they were gone. I to be honest I I don't know if he if he ever sang in Latin again. I I would sing the Salv Regina with him often. You would? Yeah. Yeah. Would he sing along? Oh, yeah. He knew it off by heart. Oh, yeah. His Latin was great. Yeah. Really? Yeah. So, after all those years, he his mind was so good and he he he remembered that. Oh, yeah. That's why that's why I sang in Latin at his grave cuz I knew he he would have loved that. So, I did. Yeah. Yeah. you when I when I when you share this like this language of Latin connects us to a previous generation that we're supposed to honor, right? It says, "Honor thy father and thy mother." And I think part of that is honoring the previous generation that toiled and worked and prayed to give us the life that we have now. Yeah. And changing the language seems to rupture a connection to the past. Yeah, that seems very important. It seems to be like you want to honor the past. I just think of like a practical experience within a family. What unites a family? There's many different things, but here in the Yazinski household, one thing that unites us is our language. Yeah. If Janelle, who is bilingual, started speaking to all the kids in French, well, it leaves me out cuz I don't know French. Uh neither do the kids, but they were working on it before. But like so language is a pretty important thing to be in unity as a family. Um and then you you think about our experience as Catholics. Well, aren't we a family, part of the family of God? And then we think, well, what about the sacred language? And all of a sudden, we change the language or it's not being used. And then we almost are separated from the past a little bit. Do you do you think we'll get back to talking to Father Dan in just a second? But first, if you've been blessed by this video, could you help us out in a few simple ways? Number one, like and share this video. YouTube's going to see that. Then push this video out to our larger audience. So, that's something you could do. Number two, could you pray for us? We're always in need of grace and we would greatly appreciate your prayers. And number three, if it is possible, supporting our mission at kenjanel.com. Your support makes it possible for us to keep on producing videos just like the one you're watching. You know, all our content is free, but it's not free to make. Every contribution really does make a difference on our side. So, back to Father Dan. And then we almost are separated from the past a little bit. Do you do you think Oh, definitely. Definitely. The the language of the church is Latin and it still is. People forget this. We're called the Latin, right? And so the church's lurggical books are written in Latin. Uh canon law is written in Latin. Only then is it translated into other languages. In fact, you need permission to celebrate masses in particular languages. And so like the Englishspeaking world, the bishops of the Englishspeaking world had to get permission from Rome. Here's our translation of the mass. Could you approve it? and they would say, "Yes, this is this is a a a pretty good translation from the Latin." And so, yes, you can celebrate mass in your vernacular, but we are Latin Catholics. And and so Latin has one can almost say it has prime of place uh even a priority. Uh it's our language as a as a as a church family. That's why we call ourselves Latin Catholics, right? Uh well, I don't think many people have considered that. Yeah. Because that's not our experience. No, exactly. Like it's so removed from the typical nervous order experience that we have. And I think there's a lot of confusion about this because we were we are led to have this impression. Well, Vatican 2 got rid of Latin and so that's why we don't have it today. But in your homaly, you go back to the documents of Vatican 2 and you clearly show that the Vatican Vatican 2 was asking us to preserve and still promote Latin. So we have Vatican Vatican 2 saying something but our experience is something else. So I think this is the big question. What went wrong? Yeah, I'm still trying to figure that out. This is this is an important question. So I have some ideas. Okay. Number one, I I think there was some misguided optimism. There was a sense that this is going to be new springtime in the church. Uh there's these changes to the mass coming and vernacular's going to change everything. You know, the people are going to be able to understand everything. They're going to be able to participate more actively in it in everything. And so this is going to change everything. And so they went all in on on the vernacular. And so I think it was a a really a misguided optimism on that because obviously that fition that it didn't come true. What what that springtime of the church that they were longing for when we're hoping for through some of these changes, right, didn't come to pass. Do you think do you think that there's some before you get to your next point, do you think there's others that still think, "No, no, this is the springtime and it has been successful." Do you think that's within the church or are most people like, "Yeah, something went off." I think if people now really took an objective look at, you know, the state of the church, that's the conclusion you have to come to is something went wrong. I mean, I've obviously agree with you. No, I'm not. I think there are still some people out there that that think there was a springtime in the church after the second Vatican council and we just need to continue that springtime. I I think some would hold that position. So misguided optimism. Is there something else you Yeah. The the second thing I think that went wrong and we just have to say it it it was neglect. The documents steerly clearly state that Latin is to be preserved in the Latin. Right? This is the second Vatican council secro sanctum conchilium. The faithful are to know the ordinary parts of the mass in Latin. That's a a lot of parts. And what I didn't mention in the homaly, it even states that the ancient practice of priests reciting their divine office, the bravery in Latin is to be retained and promoted. I I don't know any priest that still recites the divine office in Latin. Almost none. Uh and so there was a neglect on part of priests of bishops, seminaries to the duty to to teach Latin and to pass it on to the church as the second Vatican council and the fathers of the council obviously desired because they they wrote about it and included it and that responsibility was neglected. I I I think we just have to say that. And then thirdly, and unfortunately in some corners of the church, there is even a disdain of the Latin language. Uh particularly in North America, I'm not sure if you've ever run into this. If if peop I've encountered people who have encountered Latin at the mass and sometimes they come up to me and they're they're quite upset that we're having Latin in the mass. You've experienced that? Yes. And just when I talk with people about oh we don't need Latin we needed to throw away. It's almost a disdain for the church's language. Right. And there was a disdain in some corners of the church. In some corners of the church in North America, if seminarians wanted to study Latin, not sure if people knew this, but in the 70s, 80s, 90s, even in the 2000s, very few priests were trained in Latin. In fact, it was discouraged sometimes if a seminarian wanted to learn the language of the church. They were sometimes seen as as rigid or unfit for the priestly office. And that's just an anecdotal experience. M you know I've I've had with with some of seminarians I've run into in my own formation but and so there's this disdain for the church's language which I haven't quite figured out yet the root of it. Yeah. I don't know if it's because it hearkens back to more traditional things or I I just haven't quite figured it out yet. But I'll get there one day. I sure I'm sure somebody will comment in the section live let us know their idea. Yeah. Yeah. But those three things about you know how did this happen? So a misguided optimism you know at the beginning of the council and thereafter and then a neglect and then that led to sometimes a disdain for the church's language. Okay. But now here we are. Um, we are so far removed from using Latin. At least I'm going to speak here in Canada. So far removed. One could say, look, this is how it is now. Father Dan, like why do we need to go back? Just accept it as it is. Like, okay, maybe the Vatican 2 says so, but look, look at it now. It's not practical. It's not how can we actually turn back like that? How would you respond to that criticism like that? Well, again, I would come back to the fact that we are Latin right Catholics. That we're Roman Catholic, which means we're Latin right Catholics because our right began in in in the Roman church of which uh and so the mass developed within the the Latin language. And so our patrimony is Latin. And so Latin will always and should have a place because of that as we it's it's the language of our of our family. But if we want to make if we want to realize the the fullness of the second Vatican council and I think people do I mean we hear about that all the time. We we still need to live out and and make real the Second Vatican Council. Well, Latin was part of it in the in the fathers of the churches and and their desire for it. It's clearly stated. So, you're saying if we're really serious about Vatican 2, this this whole Latin issue cannot be ignored. Well, you just heard it in the hall, right? It's right there. Clear as day. I I just find this so uh mindboggling. Like, if this really is what it says, I don't disagree. I mean, I've I've read it and you've said it. You know, I just don't want to quite understand like there's no so few voices who are sharing this. This is why I think it's this this conversation is really important just to just to share with people, yeah, look, things aren't the way they were intended as the fathers of the Second Vatican Council desired. Yeah, that's very clear. Okay. Yeah. Why it's also important to have Latin today even though like look here we are today no one's using it is we need to get it back to a view of the of the liturgy the faith is something that is passed on to us that includes our doctrines that includes how we pray the rosary and that includes our liturgy the liturgy is not something we create for ourselves it's something that is passed on in The language of the liturgy is something that has been passed on to us since the beginning. There is evidence as I mentioned in the homaly like as the mass was developing Greek was used a little bit which is why sometimes the lord of mercies in Greek but then trans transitioned into Latin from the beginning of the mass really till 1970s the the mass was said in Latin and we have to keep in mind when the mass spread throughout the world to areas where Latin wasn't spoke The church still chose to have a mass in Latin. They didn't say, "Oh, let's just have the vernacular now because these people don't know the language." Right? They said, "No, no, there's something important about it." So, there would be some people that said, "Well, Latin doesn't it it causes barriers for people to come into the church or it it it's not very inclusive." Yeah. Well, if you look at the tradition of your church, you're saying, well, the church has operated always under this premise that Latin is a sacred language. Going into new cultures, it retains that. Yes. All all throughout our tradition. Yeah. And it's worked. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I think, important to remember. Yeah, the cuz the church in her tradition and history could have chose to say, you know what, maybe we don't need Latin anymore because we're going out into the world to these different places. But she always chose to use it and say, uh, nope, this has been handed on to us. It is a sacred language now and, uh, we will use it to glorify God and it has a place. So what about uh famil family's experience? So you know we have eight children here. Uh are your comments in the homaly targeting specifically only the liturgy experience or you can they also be applied to a home setting? For example, are you suggesting that we pray grace before meals in Latin? Should our children be saying the rosary in Latin or is there also room for private devotion in our vernacular English? Yes. So there's room for the vernacular for sure. Right. Also in the mass there's room particularly rooms for the vernacular in the mass but especially in our our uh spiritual own personal spiritual life for sure. But what I would say is it it would be a good endeavor to teach our children their prayers in Latin. Uh because the Lord Jesus himself had a sacred language. It was Hebrew. Yeah. And his vernacular was Aramaic, right? But he learned his prayers in his sacred language, that of Hebrew. Why can't we do the same? Uh it can be done. It's funny you asked me that. Uh we were just home a couple weeks ago together. Yeah. And our little nephew, little Lucas. Yeah. He comes up to me and he says, "Father Dan, I've learned the Hail Mary in Latin. He's 7 years old." And my little brother Chris just has been teaching it to him little by little. He just just prayed it off to me, no problem. This is how fast the little ones just really get it. And so he's able to correlate like he knows the English, he knows the Latin now and just a wonderful way. So yes, I don't know what's more shocking that little Lucas knows Latin or that his dad, our brother Chris knows Latin himself. Well, and he was just so proud to share it with me. It's funny. Uh our our the top four oldest used to go to an academy here, Catholic Academy, where they learned many of their prayers in Latin. So when they would come home and we'd say the rosary, one day all of a sudden they started saying it in Latin. I'm like what's going on? And they're like they're doing the sign of the cross and land the our father in Latin. Sometimes they hail Mary and I'm like show off like it was just like I didn't think that but like I was like well that's neat. That's really special. But that was although that hasn't been too long ago. Uh I did appreciate that. But again, like going back to what you've been saying and I've been thinking about the liturgy more. I'm like, "Yeah, this is this is important." Yeah. I'm a firm believer that our children should learn the prayers, the ancient prayers of the church. Yeah. In Latin. Okay. And uh so are the Hail Mary, the Our Father, the Glory Be and then some of the Mary beautiful Mary and Antapons. We sing this alve regina the a regina cello room uh and some of the the ancient beautiful hymns in Latin. Uh these are treasures that have been passed on to us and been sung by the saints and uh well that's that's the other thing I've been thinking about when you think about I think about I love St. St. Alonsos, right? Yeah. And I imagine him saying mass. I never or in prayer. I I never imagined him praying in Latin. Yeah. And I think that speaks to my deformationation. Great. Like I I just it was not in my mind. I think how did the early church pray or like even like just like 200 years ago. I never I don't my imagination doesn't go to Latin. It does now, but it didn't before. So, let's end with a word of hope and a word of encouragement. If there's priests or even bishops watching this episode today and they're beginning to wonder, well, how can I start reintroducing this into parish life? What would you say? So I would just say there's a there's a longing out there especially not only amongst the young people but amongst others for us to use the church's language once again and to kind of rediscover its beauty and its sacredness once again which my next homaly uh will be on. Um, it has been my experience that most people respond positively uh to the use of Latin in the liturgy. Not all, but most people. And as our uh good cousin, a sister Miriam Hollesman would always say, she would always say, "Begin slow and continue to grow." Do you remember that? I do. Yeah. And I I'm a firm believer with that on on introducing Latin into our dascese and in our churches. First catechize the people, which is why I gave those homilies. Let them know why we're doing something. And then tell them when you're going to do it and then show them, you know, and I think if these things are done slowly with good katakesis, the people will be very receptive to it. that that's what I think and it'll be for the good of the church. Um uh connecting with our past and I I didn't get to touch on this in the homily but there's there's power in the Latin language right uh as as John the 23rd stated uh it has been Latin has been consecrated through use by the holy sea. Can you imagine a language consecrated? It's set apart. It's holy. Why wouldn't we want to use something like that? Again, not I'm not saying we need to get rid of the vernacular totally. I just there needs we need to find the place for the church's language again. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome.