Pope Leo’s First 6 Months: Concern or Reason for Hope? (Fr Cristino)

Many Catholics are watching Pope Leo closely — some with hope, others with concern. What kind of shepherd will he be for the Church?  

In this candid conversation, Fr. Cristino Bouvette joins Ken Yasinski to reflect on Pope Leo’s first six months as successor of St. Peter — his tone, gestures, and early decisions — and what they reveal about the direction of the Church today.  

Transcript

Father Cristino, welcome back. Thank you, Ken. So, we have about six months that have gone by since Pope Leo has been elected. Um, some is a lot has happened since then, but I want to know where were you when Pope Leo was first elected pope. Oh, I was on holidays. Oh, you were? I was I was away with a priest and we were just taking uh a week away together and uh we were actually in a hotel and so uh and it was a kind of a different like I wasn't at home obviously I was in a different time zone and so I was trying to keep track of what was happening cuz they went into the conclave well right the day after we got onto our holiday and it didn't take long before he was elected right and so uh it was uh early in the morning where we were compared to Rome time. And I just thought, I'll just I'll just double check and see if anything's happening yet. And so I looked at the live chimney cam, you know, they had set up on all these different news stations. And as I was watching, the white smoke started to come up and I just jumped up. I thought, is is this actually is this live? Is this happening right now? And I said, Father Troy, we have a pope. And he's like, "Oh, well, how long is it going to take before he comes out?" I said, "Oh, I don't know, maybe an hour." He's like, "Oh, okay." He's like rolls over and goes back to bed. But I wanted to watch every minute of this. I was so excited. And uh it's no secret. I think I've even maybe said on on your program or I know I heard you say at least that if you had to if you got to pick, you knew who you would want to have. And I wanted to have Cardinal Robert Sara. And when they announced Tab Mus Papam and they said his name Robertous, I I almost jumped out of my skin. I couldn't believe it because I didn't think about any other cardinal named Robert. I thought it's Cardinal Sar. They elected Cardinal Sar. Then his middle name is Francis. So Francisco and I, oh Cardinal Sar's middle name is Francis. I don't remember that. And then they say this long formula of their formal title as a cardinal of the church. Then they say the last name Pvost and my heart just sank into my stomach. And no no offense to any of your American viewers, but I said, "An American? We've elected an American pope? I can't believe it. Everyone always said this. It wasn't possible." And my reaction was as strong as it was. I think because I assumed, oh my gosh, the cardinals think that we need to have an American pope to go to battle with Donald Trump. You know, I just I thought I was thinking in political categories, which is just poisonous. I wasn't thinking at all about the possibility that the Holy Spirit might have guided this choice. And so I just I wasn't happy. And then he came out. And when he emerged on that central dressed as the Roman pontiff, no offense to the memory of our late holy father Pope Francis, but it was it was very jarring to see him emerge. I was watching that live too when Pope Francis came out on the balcony. Mhm. Just just in the white cass like it was it was shocking cuz you've just never seen something like that in history. And now this was the the fourth pope I've I've seen in my life, the third pope I've seen elected and come out, Pope Benedict, Pope Francis, and now Pope Leo. And he chose the name Leo, which was the name I wanted our next pope to choose. Uh, and I had my own reasons why I thought that would be. And after hearing him describe it, I realized, wow, I guess we're on the same page because he talked about a lot of the same things that I've had in mind. And so seeing him as he was dressed and now they must have these drones that get right up to your face. I could see his his chin was trembling and his eyes were filled with tears. He he I think two or three times wanted to try and say something and he couldn't because I think he was overcome by emotion. Mhm. And so all that hardness of heart that I had one minute earlier just instantly evaporated. I I immediately felt like I loved him. And I think part of why is because I looked on his face and I said, "I think he loves me. I think he's looking over his flock with love." And when he said those first words, the the peace, the peace of the Lord be with you all. I thought, well, that's a nice thing to say. That's what how a bishop begins mass. The peace peace be with you. But then he said, it is with these words that the risen Lord on the morning of his resurrection greeted the apostles. And I realized, oh my gosh, he's going right into it. Like that wasn't just a nice thing to say. He's already preaching to us. He's already talking to us about Jesus. Wow. Like that just really touched my heart. And so as he continued to say his reflections at a certain moment he did something that I think historically I I'm not sure that this has ever been done before. The the popes were almost always Italian. Then in the last few years when we've had non-Italian popes, they all still just spoke Italian when they came out on the balcony. The pata is filled with Italians. It makes sense. He said in Italian, "You will permit me to say now a few words in Spanish? Whoa, that's different. And then in Spanish, and he speaks beautiful Italian and beautiful Spanish, by the way, but he said in Spanish, uh, I greet the people of my beloved dascese in Chicl. He was the bishop of a dascese in Peru before Pope Francis brought him to Rome to work in the Vatican government. And his heart is the heart of a pastor. This man has just been elected pope and where is his mind? In his home dascese, the the first place where he had been a shepherd of a flock. And his mind and heart are still there. And I think about that as a pastor myself. Uh if somehow I was elected pope tomorrow, I would only be thinking about Strathmore and my people and my parish, my flock. That's that's the heart of a pastor. So I went through a pretty emotional roller coaster uh watching that election and and now 6 months later I just continue to give thanks for the gift of our holy father. So you speak of uh it for you was evident that he had the heart of a pastor. You were moved by that. Do you feel as six months have gone by now uh you've seen that play out in how he's shepherded the church? Yes. Yeah. I I do see that. I there's there's a variety of of things. Everyone's always caught up about gestures. You know, gestures are important. I I don't want to diminish them, but they only give you a snapshot. And sometimes they might be more telling about the moment than about the person or about, you know, everything altogether. So, I don't pay a ton of attention to gestures. But there's one that has I don't it'll stay with me forever. I think uh we've talked sometimes about the Jubilee year and so he was elected pope in the midst of this Jubilee year and there were every week practically there's a different jubilee and so within I think it was within the first month at least the first few weeks of his election it was the already scheduled Jubilee for those who work at the Vatican and so he had an audience in the Paul the 6th audience hall with all of the staff almost all lay people but then cardinals those bishops, religious sisters, all who work in some office or diecastic. Uh even the people that are street sweepers like the Vatican has a a staff, right? They were all there with him. And so he gave his little allocution and he thanked them for their service to the church and and typical things that you would expect. And then the Jubilee year theme song started to play. And he walked down off of the stage and I thought, "Oh, it's going to go and greet people." But then Archbishop Fickela, the kind of quarterback of all the Jubilee stuff, brought him this big cross and he handed it to Pope Leo and and he kissed the cross and then he held this cross up and he started walking down the center aisle of the Paul the 6th audience hall and then everybody in there started following behind him and he walked from inside of there all the way around it and it's it's like it's not close. I don't know the exact distance. We could look it up and and find out. I'm guessing it it's at least 500 m if not more that he went from out of the audience hall around the outside of the walls of St. Peter Square into the piaza up to the basilica through the holy door all the way up the aisle to the altar of the confession of St. Peter carrying this cross being followed by these people that work for him. And I thought that is a powerful image of the office of the pope. One who himself is being led by the cross because the cross went first and he is a servant of the cross. He holds up the cross to us. He shows us the cross and then we come behind him, but we're all moving together in the same direction. That was a very powerful image of him shephering the church. Beautiful. Did you see that on TV? I did. Yeah, I wasn't there. I I I saw on YouTube afterwards. It it blew my mind. And we have to remember it's been So the Holy Father just turned 70 a couple months ago. It's been 35 years since the pope in office was 70 years old. Pope Benedict was 78. Pope Francis, I think, was 76 or 78. They were around that age when they were elected. Pope John Paul was 58 years old when he was elected. But he turned 70 in 1990. So, it's been 35 years since someone that age was in office as pope. And uh we've heard testimonies from Pope uh Leo, from Cardinal Post's uh personal trainer at the gym that he used to go to. How shocked he was to realize that his client hadn't been in the gym for a few days because he was busy getting elected to the papacy. And there he was. So he he takes care of himself, right? He's in good shape and he picks up that cross and he marches forward. And and I think that's a powerful image. I want to shift gears slightly a little bit. There's many Catholics throughout Pope Francis's papacy who felt disappointed with how he led uh disappointed with the they would call it the lack of clarity in some of his statements or teachings. And when a new pope was coming uh they were hoping that this new pope would speak with clarity quickly to some of the things that maybe have were unclear in the past. and they they will bring up things specifically like uh fiduciius supplicants. I mean uh we have all of Africa saying we're we're not going to implement this and or they might be a more latitious and I think afterwards with the dubia came forward which were then publicly known um which caused a lot of division because okay these were private questions now we're bringing them forth publicly uh and then we have restrictions on the Latin mass that came as well and um many Catholics were hoping that by now Pope Leo would have addressed these directly. Mhm. And they're disappointed. Mhm. How would you address those concerns? And how would you speak to those people who feel that way? Mhm. Over the years, we've talked numerous times about Pope Francis. uh and out of respect for the Holy Father, I I always hoped to be measured and charitable in any assessment I gave of him or how he was trying to lead. Uh and now you pray for his eternal repose, but I feel it's a little easier for me to be a bit more forthcoming with how I personally felt under his pontificate. And and frequently it was hurt. I just felt hurt by him often. Uh he he had a way of saying things that I don't know how he meant them, but they were they just seemed so callously dismissive of a wide group of people that I just don't think he knew. He he must have heard things and detected issues and problems in the life of the church. uh but then w with kind of one sweeping gesture just wiped out entire segments of of faithful Catholics and I don't I have to believe I don't think he meant to do that and it might partly just be his personality and I understand what people mean when they say that oh he was ambiguous and there was always a lack of clarity. I'm not sure that there was always a lack of clarity. I think it was just shocking how close he seemed so frequently to come to sounding like we're going to change the teaching of the church. And it was almost like we always we always stopped short, but it was like we were always coming up to that line. Even just the sense of there being an openness to reexploring questions that many would have thought these these are settled. This is in the catechism. And then sometimes he goes in and even changes some of the catechism. I think people were disoriented by not the lack of clarity but by the utterly novel way he exercised the papacy.

That's what I think was disorienting for people because it so frequently looked like he was prepared to be quite dismissive of what came before him, including the teachings of his immediate predecessor while he still lived in his backyard. I think that was very shocking and alarming to people. And if that's the case, I cannot accept that the antidote to that would be for Pope Leo to come in and behave in exactly the same way and just undermine and contradict and overrule the things that have come forward in the life of the church by his immediate predecessor. I think it was precisely that behavior and that way of exercising his pontificate that caused so much confusion and heartache and division and I think Pope Leo was saying not doing that. So he speaks very affectionately of Pope Francis and he borrows his kind of language and he applies it to scenarios as I think he sees it being applicable. But he has made it clear he is not here to just whip us around the other direction now because I think actually as pleasing or satisfying as some Catholics might think that would be for them, we cannot live that way in the life of the church where we just whip our heads back and forth depending on who's the pope and what he says. The pope is the cervous cerv the servant of the servants of God. And I think we are watching Poplio try to take the papacy back to a place where we hadn't seen it for 12 years without that violent whiplash of an experience of going there. There's a caution with some like I I mean when Janal and I saw Pope Leo come forward, we didn't know who he was, right? Who is this person? But you know like so I'm on my phone and like what did he teach? There wasn't a lot out there immediately to find. No. But there was also this great hope, you know, and and I and I still have that. But I I see some comments uh and people are concerned about some of the people that he's taken audience with uh like uh father James Martin who has very questionable ministry with LGBTQ community and seems to really stray from the traditional teachings of the church sometimes and that's the impression that many people have of Father James but Pope Leo meets with him and so some are saying this appears appears as though he's given an endorsement to his ministry by meeting with him. How would you respond to people who say something like that? I would say that the pope meets dozens of people a day and as uh I think the normal course of action for most popes in history has been he has a team of people around him who organize and coordinate things for him. And unlike Pope Francis, and please remember I had personal experience working with him and his Vatican when he came to Canada in 2022. I I'm not just pulling the stuff out of thin air. The Pope handled intimate details about everything and frequently things had to get brought up to him before a decision would be made. I just don't think Pope Leo uh runs the show that way. So if his handlers say, "Here's who you're meeting today, holy father." Then that's what he does. He meets with them. Don't tell me that just because Pope Francis is gone that Father James Martin doesn't still have his contacts who can open doors for him anytime they want for him to get to go in and have a picture with the pope because it's about the picture. It's just about the picture. And then everyone freaks out. He had pictures with a dozen other people that day because he's the pope. He makes himself available to anyone. Just not long ago, he also authorized Cardinal Burke to celebrate a traditional Latin mass in St. Peter's Basilica after it felt as though the traditional Latin mass was being shoved deep dark into the recesses of the closet of the church. Again, I think we are seeing a pope who is trying to make space for everybody to do their thing. But Jesus is the center. He's leading with the cross. How is what you are about? How is how you characterize your Catholicism in line with this? I think that's what he is gently, prudently, carefully leading people towards. So, he has a picture after a 5-minute chat with someone, I don't care. That's fine because there's going to be other people that we'll be glad to see that he met with, but we just don't talk about that because it's not controversial and we are addicted to controversy, particularly in North America, and we have to get over that. Okay, staying in that uh theme of addicted to controversy. Some people are looking at his appointments of bishops as controversial. Uh more progressive leaning than um than not. And so I remember back a little while ago before when Pope Francis was pope, no Pope Leo, sorry, Pope Francis was pope, there was a phrase that was floating around, personnel is policy. Mhm. You appoint people into a position because they have a certain belief and that's why they're there. And although this isn't the official policy on paper, it is in practice. So personnel is policy. Some are looking at it and think, well, this is just a continuation. Um, progressive leaning bishops being appointed. Is there in your mind a concern with any of that? There is an immense amount of background work that goes into the decision of an an appointment of a bishop. And the job that Pope Leo had as cardinal pvost before being elected to the papacy was to be the cardinal prefect of the diccaster that oversees that. And it was only I don't even think it was for three years before he ended up being elected pope. That that was his office. That was his desk. He personally studied those files, but he also was being directed from above. And I don't mean necessarily from heaven. The pope was quite intimately involved in decisions that were made. And I know from other personal contacts that I have that that diccaster could bring forward their recommendations and the pope would personally decide, "Nope, I want this person." And then they had to scramble and go do whatever the other normal procedures are to bring forward a candidate so that the pope could get the one that he had already decided he wanted to have. Pope Leo as of at least today that we are having this conversation has yet to appoint a successor to himself in that office. And I think probably it's because he's trying to get a handle of the whole big picture of the Vatican bureaucracy. He worked in a small part of it having had zero experience leading up to that. Frequently the prefects of diccasteries in the Vatican have worked in the Vatican bureaucracy for most of their priesthood. They just kind of slowly work their way up until one day they're entrusted with being in charge of one big office. He came from a missionary dascese in Peru to take on that role. I think it must have blown his mind that a that he was even on the pope's radar, Pope Francis's radar, and b that of all the people he could ask to do that, he would have chosen him. And I bet it took him a year just to uh realize that this is actually my life now. So I don't think he had an opportunity to put much of his own stamp on episcopal appointments in the time that he was running that office. But they have a big cue that are all lined up that I imagine for a period of time. He is going to continue to just let those things unfold because as I was saying before he has made it abundantly clear that it is not his motus operandi to come in and just wipe things out. And I think there's a wisdom to that and I don't know about these controversial bishops. I know why people on English-speaking media who drum up whatever they can find about someone will tell us that they're a controversial person. I haven't sat down and talked to any of them. I don't know who they are. I don't know if they pray. I don't know how they celebrate the Holy Mass. I don't know anything about them. I would at least want to know those things before I made up my irrelevant judgment about whether or not they're a good bishop candidate. And I think we would all do well to just calm down and let the pope do what he's doing without bringing this automatic air of suspicion. I think that that is a pervading issue in in our culture and particularly in the church. I can understand where it's come from having lived for 12 years under Pope Francis. But if it wasn't healthy then, it's not healthy now. We'll get back to the conversation in just a second. But a question for you. If you've been blessed by this video, you could help us out in a couple very simple ways. Firstly, like and share this video. YouTube is going to see that and then suggest this message out to a larger audience. So, that's something simple you could do. Secondly, could you pray for us? We're always in need of grace and we'd greatly appreciate your prayers. And thirdly, if it is possible, consider supporting our mission at canonjanel.com. Your support allows us to continue producing videos just like the one you're watching. So, thank you so much for the consideration. Now, back to the conversation. I want to ask you about the German bishops because right after Pope Leo was elected pope, we have the German bishops that came out in April of 2025 with a handbook that was published by their conference of bishops um giving guidance on ritual blessings for same sex couples and couples in irregular unions. I think the title of it was blessings for couples who love each other. This this seems to be in clear contradiction. Well, it is clear contradiction to to fusia supplicans that forbids any sort of liturggical blessings for couples, same-sex couples or couples in irregular unions. So, this seems like a blatant turn from what Pope Francis did. And uh some are looking at I think thinking why doesn't Pope Leo do something about that? Well, I feel like that's it's just another example of what he has inherited in the present time that he is pope of factions of the church who try to be antagonistic, who have their agenda and who want things done in a certain way, who've made that abundantly clear. This isn't me interpreting what I think they're saying or doing. They have made it very clear what they want, how they want it, why they want it, and they've been met with little to no resistance under the pontificate of Pope Francis. And so now with Pope Leo, I think people are everything gets dichomized. It's this or that. It's either or. So either the Pope stomps it out like Pope Francis should have or he's okay with it. he's tacitly approving it. And I don't think it has to be such an eitheror in at least a portion of of the interview that he gave, the Holy Father gave to a journalist with the Krux um Catholic news agency. Uh he gets asked about these kinds of things. And I think many people would have heard what sounds like pretty fluffy, wishywashy, sort of ambiguous reaction to things that I know people would have rather heard him take a hard line and a firm stance on. But when you listen to the way he answers those questions, I think it's it's brilliant. I think it's by design. He's saying, "You can't suck me into this. I am not going to participate in these battles because they're fabrications that do not belong in the life of the church and they have been fermented for 12 years. And so I'm just going to say what the church teaches. I think one example if I recall correctly how he put it was uh of course we bless people who love each other because we're all called to love everyone. I say, "Well, what do you mean by that, Holy Father?" He means exactly that because the gospel is pretty clear. Love one another. I think he's trying to get people off of this tribalism of of what they want and what they want to hear. And he's just going back to the simple and clear proclamation of the gospel. What did Jesus say? Well, that's what we're going to do. That's the answer to this. And so the German bishops trying to antagonize the Pope or the Holy Sea by waving around their little tract and what they want next. I think the Pope is treating that like you probably handle some of your children's temper tantrums, which is to say, "I'm not getting sucked into this. I'm not going to let you steal my peace. You go ahead and stomp into the corner if you want. I'm not following you. I'm not raising my voice at you. I'm not going to spank you, but I'm also not okay with it. So, I'm not going to condone it or bend my will to whatever it is that you're demanding from me at this moment as your dad that I'm not giving you. I I think we need to see the wisdom of the the shepherd of a billion people not getting sucked into everyone's controversies. So long term, can that just be let go or there's does there isn't some sort of official response happen? I think it's difficult for him to have to start picking and choosing what things he decides he's going to officially respond to specifically which emerged from out of the pontificate of Pope Francis. I I think he I'm sorry if I keep repeating myself, but I think he is very wisely taking a course of action that says I am not going to be dismissive and contradictory of my predecessor. And the irony is because we see what happens when popes behave that way. And so I'm not going to do that. And I think there's a great wisdom there. He can chart a new course forward for the church and I think he will do that with this constant return to the gospel. What did Jesus say that we will do? But you didn't he didn't really like going forward. C can this just like perpetually continue? I don't think Okay, you're asking about going forward. I don't How am I supposed to know? How is he even supposed to know what it's going to look like going forward? Well, how can he have already mapped out his plan for how he's going to be pope for the next 20 years? He he realistically could be our pope for another 20 years. He's young and healthy. So I don't think it's reasonable for us to expect that he's already figured out how he intends to do things 5 years from now. So I I think we're better off saying what he's doing right now, particularly right now hasn't even been a year since the death of Pope Francis has serves a wise purpose. And as he begins to better establish his magisterium, his his exercise of the teaching office of the church, it will just begin, I think, to fill some of the voids that we have seen to be ambiguity and the toleration of things that don't seem like they should be able to be tolerated according to the teaching of the church. and without needing to be dismissive and contradictory, he'll just begin filling those things. And and I'm I'm confident and at peace that he will do so in a manner that is completely compatible with the gospel. I had a a priest once say, you know, the key to uh beating out your enemies in the church is just to live longer than them. Exactly. or or to say I don't have enemies and I and I I know he's but there's there's a wisdom to what what your priest friend is saying there that you just have to live longer but it's not just about outlasting them and it's about showing that you are not be you are inde undefeable you can't overtake me. You can't hold me hostage. Mhm. And and I think that is is the antidote. So let's say we uh have you back one year from now and it's a year and a half that has gone by with Pope Leo. Um I thought it'd be fun. Give me a prediction. What do you think Pope Leo would have done now one year from now? Um, now I'm not holding you to this, but um, what do you think? I think we can expect uh, an encyclical to have been published by him within this year. I I expect that it will be in keeping with what we refer to as the tradition of Catholic social teaching. uh in honor of his namesake uh who he said he chose the name Pope Leo I the 14th in recognition of Pope Leo I 13th who saw the church through the industrial revolution and its profound and radical impact that it had on the organization of society at the time and I think he sees himself as being the pope who is going to lead us through another industrial revolution but of a of a digital kind and so I think we can expect to have some very important and clear teaching from him on how as Catholics we will navigate the landscape, this new digital landscape that just seems to be it just seems out of control. It's it's so rapidly advancing and progressing that you can barely stay caught up with technology anymore. Mhm. So I think we can expect probably within the next year to have heard from him on something like that. And I think that there we can expect some episcopal appointments that people will rejoice to see have been made that bishops will have been named that people will say, "Oh, I'm relieved that he was chosen for bishop or that he became the bishop of this dascese." The cardinal archbishop of New York has passed the retirement age. Cardinal Dolan is beyond the age of 75. That will be a a very significant appointment. the bishops who will take over roles in the Vatican government. Uh several of them are also well past the age of 75. So the people that he begins putting in place to work with him as his closest collaborators. Uh I think in the next year we will see some uh some things that will help little by little without being uh radical smoking guns as as they might say. we will see more signs of of the manner in which Pope Leo desires to lead the church. Okay. Um last comment on this. We're wrapping it up and there's still people on the edge and they're cautiously watching Pope Leo and they've experienced a lot of hurt in the prior with Pope Francis and they're sitting there. Uh it's hard to trust sometimes when you've been you feel you've been hurt. Mhm. Now, just because you've been hurt doesn't mean you're justifiably hurt, you know, right? Like we could be responding out of woundedness, but like that's just where some might be at. They're still cautious. They're maybe still suspicious and they feel hurt still and maybe a little bit angry or disappointed. Mhm. Your final word to them here. Choose to love.

Love is a choice. We have to choose to love anyone who we're going to love. But as Catholics, we we must love the vicor of Christ on earth. Not because we are obligated as a precept of the church. We are honored. We are blessed and privileged that that office exists and that a successor to St. Peter continues to shepherd Christ's people. We must have always as our starting point the love of him. And when you when you love him and tell yourself that I love the Holy Father, not pray for him begrudgingly because you think he's a terrible pope and I guess this is just what I have to do. I'm afraid that a lot of people ended up in an attitude and a disposition like that under the pontificate of Pope Francis. That is not a healthy place to be. Certainly not a healthy place to stay, especially if it's now being directed to a new pope. Our fundamental starting point ought to always be that of love and trust and admiration. Earlier this year, when I was in Rome and I had the opportunity to conelebrleate mass with him, mind you, and it was a massive crowd. I wasn't like I was right beside him at the altar, but uh my heart was deeply moved to be with him. I I saw just even in his face I and his posture a man who adores Jesus in the Eucharist. And at the end of the mass, and I've now seen him do this several times, he just popped back out on stage again. His vestments off, everyone's scrambling to try and get out. and he just came out to say, uh, good morning everyone. Happy Sunday. I I just so happy to see you all and so honored that we can all be together. Thank you for coming to Rome. I think he's a father who loves his children and so I think we need to just try our best to love him back. Thank you.